TALK SESSION “Memories of the City and Music” — Guests: Matsuo Kiyoshi (Music Producer), Mitsuishi Ken (Actor), Matsushige Yutaka (Actor)
Fukamachi Hello, everyone. Welcome to FUKUOKA MUSIC SUMMIT. My name is Fukamachi Kenjiro. Thank you for joining us. It is wonderful to see so many people here. The opening performance you just saw brought together members of the Fukuoka Music City Council in an experimental mix of rock, gospel, and the traditional Chikuzen biwa—something like Hakata-style gameni stew—to see what new music might emerge. Please give the performers another big round of applause.
It was almost an unrehearsed performance, so I am delighted that they pulled it off so perfectly. The song is called “The Beat Goes On.” Over the past several years, COVID-19 put live-music venues and musicians in Fukuoka in an extremely difficult position. We felt we must not let the music stop—the beat of Fukuoka must go on. Music producer Kenta Matsukuma, who is performing today and has produced BiSH and many other artists while also playing in his own band, moved his base from Tokyo to Fukuoka. He and I had the honor of writing this charity song together, and today it was performed again.
First, I would like to explain what the Fukuoka Music City Council is. When you hear “Fukuoka culture,” what comes to mind? One answer is festivals: this is a city of enthusiastic celebrants, with Dontaku and Yamakasa. Another is food—food stalls and many delicious, affordable dishes that draw visitors from Japan and abroad. But Fukuoka also differs clearly from other cities in one more respect: music. Half a century ago, the live-music café Shōwa in Tenjin produced Tulip, Kai Band, Kaientai, and Yosui Inoue, followed by Tsuyoshi Nagabuchi and Chage and Aska. Their national success made Fukuoka known as “Japan’s Liverpool.” In the 1980s, tougher punk-influenced beat bands such as The Rockers, The Roosters, The Mods, and Sheena & The Rokkets created a new wave in Japanese rock. Fukuoka has never stopped producing musicians and entertainers. Music also has a special power: it crosses differences in values, generations, race, and language, and it is diverse enough for everyone to find a genre they love. We wondered whether that power could serve community development, tourism, education, and health. The Fukuoka Music City Council was therefore founded across genre and industry boundaries. In this compact city, we can mix those elements—again, like gameni—and present Fukuoka at home and abroad as an even more attractive music city. Today we hope to let you experience Fukuoka’s past, present, and future. Now we will begin our talk session with three special guests who have come home for this occasion. Please welcome Matsuo Kiyoshi, Mitsuishi Ken, and Matsushige Yutaka. All three are from Fukuoka. Mr. Matsuo, would you begin with a greeting?
Matsuo Yes, I am back. I am from Sawara Ward in Fukuoka—what used to be the Nishi Ward area. As a child I wandered around Fujisaki, Nishijin, and the Muromi River. I am Matsuo Kiyoshi. Thank you for having me today. (Applause)
Fukamachi And now, Mitsuishi Ken.
Mitsuishi I am Mitsuishi Ken. I was born in Yahata, Kitakyushu, raised in Kurosaki, and grew up beside the Onga River. I am Mitsuishi of the Riverside Boys. Thank you. (Applause)
Fukamachi And now, Matsushige Yutaka.
Matsushige Every time I come home, something else has disappeared. When I returned last week, the Fukuoka Building was gone. I could not even tell where I was. I thought, “This cannot be Tenjin anymore!” (Laughter) Thank you for having me today. (Applause)
Fukamachi Thank you. Please take your seats. Even in our pre-show conversation, everyone was already speaking full-on Hakata dialect, so I hope we continue in dialect. Ayukawa Makoto lived in Tokyo for more than forty years, yet never lost his dialect—a mixture of Kurume, Hakata, and Wakamatsu. He was a truly treasured senior figure to us. Before the main topic, let me briefly introduce our guests. Matsuo Kiyoshi is a music producer behind numerous hits, including a Japan Record Award winner. He was also a pioneer in bringing R&B into Japanese J-pop, and more recently has been active as a novelist. (Applause)
Matsuo That is very flattering—and it keeps raising the bar. When the four of us were supposedly having a meeting backstage earlier... can we even call it a meeting? We came out here without ever reaching the main subject. I did not expect Mr. Matsushige to start talking about the Fukuoka Building onstage, but today is also about the city, is it not?
Fukamachi Exactly. Our theme is “Memories of the City and Music.” Mitsuishi Ken is from Kitakyushu, as he mentioned. He made a striking debut in the starring role of Hakata-kko Junjō and has since become one of Japan’s most distinguished supporting actors—he seems to appear in almost every film or drama I watch. He is also deeply versed in vintage culture, including old clothing, furniture, and soul music. That is accurate, is it not?
Mitsuishi Absolutely. Exactly as you say. (Laughter)
Fukamachi So, Mitsuishi Ken—thank you for joining us. Matsushige Yutaka needs little introduction. In addition to Solitary Gourmet and his many other roles, he currently appears as Ieyasu’s retainer Kazumasa Ishikawa in the NHK historical drama What Will You Do, Ieyasu? He also hosts the FM Yokohama radio program Midnight Music Diner. His astonishingly quick ear ranges from cutting-edge international music to current Japanese releases; he is clearly a serious music connoisseur. What our three guests share is Fukuoka and music. I got ahead of myself earlier, but the recent sad news in Fukuoka was the death of Ayukawa Makoto on January 29. He helped us greatly. He appeared at Sunset Live, with which I am involved, and after the Kumamoto earthquake he came carrying a single Les Paul to a charity concert in the gymnasium of the former Daimyo Elementary School. He also immediately agreed to join the charity song “The Beat Goes On.” He always kept Fukuoka in his heart, and the sense of loss remains profound. All three guests had some connection to him. Mr. Matsushige played Sheena’s father in the NHK drama You May Dream and later welcomed Mr. Ayukawa onto his radio program. You must have many memories.
Matsushige Ever since I lived in Fukuoka, Sonhouse and Sheena & The Rokkets were heroes to me. I did not move to Tokyo to become a musician, but I wanted to do something connected with music. I happened to work at a ramen shop in Shimokitazawa partly because Mr. Ayukawa lived there. Komoto Hiroto, now in The Cro-Magnons, worked there with me. Hiroto and I were always saying, “Maybe Mr. Ayukawa will come in someday.” But he liked Kurume ramen, so he never once came to our shop. (Laughter)
Fukamachi Did you ever see him around town?
Matsushige Yes, I did. “I saw Mr. Ayukawa today” was a kind of shared language among us. I admired him for years. Then, while working as an actor, I was cast in the NHK Fukuoka drama You May Dream as Sheena’s father. I actually delivered the line, “Go to Tokyo and take your shot,” to Ayukawa’s character, which connected with my own life. The drama also recreated Sheena & The Rokkets’ triumphant homecoming concert after succeeding in Tokyo. I believe the original show was at Tsukushi Kaikan, and I had attended it.
Fukamachi Were you in high school then?
Matsushige I think I was in high school or perhaps a year out. When we filmed that concert scene, I watched it thinking, “I was one of the kids in this audience.” Mr. Ayukawa was enormously important to me. Later he came onto my radio program and told me many stories. As a local kid, I believed he would always be the senior figure running far ahead of us, so even now I still cannot quite believe he is gone.
Fukamachi Still, it was wonderful that you finally had the chance to talk with him on your program.
Matsushige It truly was. Mr. Ayukawa was like a star to me.
Fukamachi He treated everyone equally and had a rebellious spirit, yet seemed made entirely of love. He was a wonderful person in every sense.
Matsushige Through the way he lived, he taught us that rock can be nurtured by love.
Fukamachi He was always saying something like, “If you love rock, we are friends!” Mr. Mitsuishi, what image or memory do you have of Mr. Ayukawa?
Mitsuishi Actually, I hardly knew him personally. Soon after I moved to Tokyo, there was a gathering of people from Hakata or Fukuoka. Takeda Tetsuya and Tamori were there, and I was sitting at the very end. Mr. Ayukawa arrived when “You May Dream” was a hit, and I saw him sing it with Sheena. I also spotted him in Shimokitazawa. That was about all, but he looked so cool. Even walking around Shimokita he was always dressed that way—it was not a costume; it was simply who he was.
Fukamachi Mr. Matsuo, another of Mr. Ayukawa’s close friends and allies was Matsumoto Yasushi of Juke Records. Mr. Matsumoto also passed away last year.
Matsuo He died in the autumn. In a sense, it was Mr. Matsumoto who connected you and me as well.
Fukamachi Every band musician in Hakata owed something to Juke Records.
Matsuo I went there in junior high and high school. Matsumoto Yasushi’s Juke Records was near Oyafuko Street in Tenjin, a little west of FUTATA, above a café called Kazemachi. I am slightly younger than these two, so I went there feeling that I was stretching beyond my age. Even then I knew that Mr. Matsumoto apparently wrote lyrics for Sheena & The Rokkets and, going further back, was deeply involved almost as an associate member of Sonhouse, Ayukawa Makoto’s original band. Mr. Ayukawa therefore felt like someone even farther beyond him. With that unmistakable presence, and because I never imagined entering the music business, I looked up to him almost as a god. In the end I never worked with him. We were in the same place several times, but I deeply regret never having a personal conversation. This may sound grand, but as I grow older I feel ever more grateful that I too entered the door into Tokyo’s music world that people like him opened, and my respect for him continues to deepen.
Fukamachi Sheena & The Rokkets eventually went to Tokyo, of course, but what was so cool about Sonhouse was that they never left Fukuoka. They kept Fukuoka as their base while making records and touring nationally. Looking back, that was remarkably fresh and forward-thinking. Oh, here is another nostalgic photograph.
Matsuo Was this the first time I met you, Mr. Fukamachi? Shinichi Matsui was another of Fukuoka’s representative radio DJs, originally a renowned KBC announcer. When he held his own “living funeral” in 2014, Mr. Ayukawa also sent a message.
Fukamachi Those are some nostalgic memories. Once again, we pray for Mr. Ayukawa’s peace. He was a truly great senior figure, and we must carry forward the message he left us: “Keep a-rockin’.” What each of us does may take a different form, but continuing is what matters. Since all of you are back in Fukuoka, let us return to old memories and talk about how you spent your youth here. Mr. Mitsuishi, as I mentioned, you were unexpectedly chosen for the starring role in Hakata-kko Junjō. How old were you?
Mitsuishi About sixteen years and eight months old. It was early July, and I went to the audition during my school exams.
Fukamachi It would not be an exaggeration to say that your life changed from that point.
Mitsuishi Everything changed that very day.
Matsushige May I say one thing? This has become my standard retort. I was one school year behind Mr. Mitsuishi, and news of this huge audition spread all over Fukuoka among our generation. Many students from my school auditioned, and every one of them failed. Then the newspaper—perhaps Nishinippon Shimbun—reported that second-year high school student Mitsuishi Ken of Tokai Daigo had won. We all said, “What? He is from Yahata in Kitakyushu!” There was a tremendous uproar. “He cannot even speak Hakata dialect! What is someone from Kitakyushu doing playing a Hakata kid?” Everyone complained. (The audience roars with laughter)
Mitsuishi You are going to get me in trouble again saying that. (Laughter)
Matsushige I was from right there in Hakata, from the Ebisu district. If you were not from Hakata, you could not even wear that kind of Yamakasa outfit. I remember thinking, “He is really pulling it off.”
Fukamachi So Mr. Matsushige is actually more of a true Hakata native.
Matsushige Exactly. Yet nobody called me at all.
Mitsuishi Well, that could not be helped.
Matsushige That was when I had no choice but to become conscious of the actor Mitsuishi Ken. The fact that we have continued working together as actors all the way to this age feels like some kind of fate.
Fukamachi People also have the impression that you two are very close.
Matsushige Whenever we meet, all we do is argue. (Laughter) But our hometowns are close, and the music and information we absorbed back then still live somewhere in our bodies. Just recently he messaged me, “Deep Sea Diving Club are great.” I listened and thought, “Yes, this is exactly what Mr. Mitsuishi would like”—a rock-and-roll band with a faint scent of pomade.
Mitsuishi That is right. I heard them on the radio in Tokyo while commuting, wrote the name down immediately at a traffic light, then went home after work that night and sent Mr. Matsushige an email.
Fukamachi And Mr. Matsushige introduced them on his radio show, saying Mr. Mitsuishi had told him about them.
Matsushige A Hakata band calling itself Deep Sea Diving—where are they supposed to be diving? (Laughter) Then they boldly call themselves “Tenjin-born.”
Mitsuishi Yes, “Tenjin city pop.”
Fukamachi What impressed me about Hakata-kko Junjō is that Hasegawa Hōsei’s original manga is written in extremely dense Hakata dialect. It became famous nationwide, but I once asked Mr. Hasegawa, “How did that proposal ever get approved?” Hakata dialect was far less familiar than Kansai dialect, and difficult to understand in print. He said that the success of Kaientai’s “Haha ni Sasageru Ballad” made it much easier. I remember hearing that song as a child and feeling proud when Takeda Tetsuya spoke in unabashed Hakata dialect—saying things like, “What on earth are you doing?” So that was the background. Were you comfortable with Hakata dialect?
Mitsuishi My father was actually from this area, and my mother was from Munakata, so the dialect was familiar to my ears. It was not especially difficult.
Fukamachi That is the story, Mr. Matsushige.
Matsushige I was staring at him just now, wondering how I could make him break into a sweat. (The audience roars with laughter)
Mitsuishi I do not really want to look over there—toward Mr. Matsushige—today. I think I will try not to look that way. (The audience roars with laughter)
Fukamachi Yamakasa gives people a distinctive kind of pride. They immediately ask, “Which junior high school did you attend?”
Mitsuishi I heard that when the production asked the various Yamakasa districts for help, it was difficult to secure cooperation until the Nishi district finally agreed. They said filming would not be permitted unless every crew member wore a shimekomi loincloth, so the camera operators and the entire crew put on full formal Yamakasa dress before rolling the cameras. Otherwise they could not enter the inner area. But all the staff looked delighted to be dressed that way. (Laughter)
Fukamachi Mr. Matsuo and Mr. Matsushige share another place: the Nishijin area, where both spent their youth. I believe each of your high schools was nearby. Nishijin has not changed that much, has it? Have either of you visited recently?
Matsushige Nishijin Palace is gone, is it not? Once that disappeared, it was all over. (Laughter) When Kashii Kaen closed, I thought my hometown was finished. Then I came back last week and the Fukuoka Building was gone. This is not my hometown anymore. (Laughter) Even when I return, it no longer feels like I have come home. Without Nishijin Palace, Nishijin has nothing.
Fukamachi But there is still Hōraku Manjū and plenty of other things, is there not?
Matsushige Hōraku Manjū was still there, but Cobalt Ice is gone. If there is no Cobalt Ice... (Laughter)
Matsuo We used to eat that. (Laughter)
Fukamachi Mr. Matsuo, what memories do you have of Nishijin?
Matsuo I also went to junior high and high school in Nishijin. As we were saying backstage, I seem to have been a junior high student at the same school Mr. Matsushige attended in his final year of high school. We did not know each other then, of course. I probably saw him as an intimidatingly large high school student and tried not to draw attention to myself. (Laughter) Seinan Gakuin was very active musically. Nishijin also had a record shop called L.
Fukamachi Ah yes, there was a record shop.
Matsuo It specialized in LPs. It may have carried singles too, but I vividly remember that LPs were the main focus. During my junior-high and high-school years, rental record shops also reached their peak in Nishijin. Suddenly you could hear an entire album for 150 or 200 yen. For us, it was as disruptive as the arrival of streaming today. Junior-high and high-school friends could share the rental cost and hear an album for about 100 yen each, then record it onto cassette—or not. Looking back, Nishijin’s rental record shops caused the amount of music I heard to increase dramatically. Yet I still wanted to own records. For anything the rental shops did not have, I went to Tenjin: Juke Records, secondhand shops such as Taguchi Shōten and Borderline in Daimyo, and Tower Records KBC in Nagahama. Those felt like expeditions.
Fukamachi How about both of you? You first encountered music here in Hakata—or Fukuoka—did you not?
Matsushige At Seinan, my high school, Jinnai Takanori was three years ahead of me, and I think Chisaki Hiroyuki of The Mods was two years ahead. He played in Modern Dolls. Live venues around then included Dark Side Moon.
Fukamachi Nishijin also had JAJA.
Matsushige And 80’s Factory. That really was the sacred ground of Mentai Rock. Music was everything, but I could neither play nor sing. Ishii Sogo—the director from Fukuoka who later changed his name to Ishii Gakuryu—was making films with The Mods and people from that scene.
Fukamachi Crazy Thunder Road, Burst City, and Panic High School.
Matsuo The one with the line, “Why is it wrong that I cannot do math?”
Matsushige Exactly. Before those, in his 8mm period, he shot Charge! Hakata Red Army and The Solitude of One Divided by 880,000 here in Fukuoka. Fukuoka music was laid over those films. I could not make music myself, but seeing that made me think I might be able to make movies, and that is what led me into this world.
Fukamachi So music showed you a route into acting.
Matsushige Yes. I wanted to make music but could not, so I searched for another way and realized, “I can go in the direction of making films.” That is why I moved to Tokyo. My point of departure was the Fukuoka music scene.
Fukamachi And you were deeply immersed in Mentai Rock.
Matsushige Yes. The Hakozaki Festival also had concerts where many strong bands gathered. There was a record at the time called Hakozaki Rock Festival, featuring Full Noise and others. (https://www.nishinippon.co.jp/item/o/133677/)
Fukamachi We are the same generation, so that really takes me back.
Matsushige I listened intensely to all that music.
Fukamachi I see. Mr. Mitsuishi, how did you first encounter music?
Mitsuishi I did not come to live venues in Hakata very often.
Fukamachi You can tell us about Kitakyushu.
Mitsuishi The members of The Roosters were from Kitakyushu, and Oe Shinya was three years ahead at Tōchiku High School...
Fukamachi The Roosters can already be called legends.
Mitsuishi I heard that Hanada Hiroyuki attended Yahata High School, but I did not know any of them personally. I loved slightly disreputable-sounding dance music. Rock with fists raised in the air did not really suit me. I preferred music that suggested something dubious on the other side—like dance music might open into some mysterious world. I was a little less serious and more of a smooth type.
Fukamachi Mr. Mitsuishi and I are actually the same age. There was a rock-and-roll revival back then, from Carol through Cools. Were you not completely immersed in that stream?
Mitsuishi I was. I loved it. I also loved bands with that kind of look, like The Checkers. I was an oldies fan. The American Graffiti jacket displayed right here had an enormous influence on me.
Fukamachi Did it make you want to perform music yourself?
Mitsuishi I suppose I wanted to, but I am not sure how serious it was. I could not play an instrument.
Matsushige Crazy Ken Band! You eventually said, “Let me sing,” and performed at a live venue, did you not? It was before Crazy Ken Band became widely known. You told me, “I have earned the right to sing now,” at a venue in Ebisu. (The audience roars with laughter)
Mitsuishi You were there, were you not? (Laughter) It was about twenty-four years ago. At an event for the film The Season of Infidelity, directed by Hiroki Ryuichi, Osugi Ren and Taguchi Tomorowo appeared with Har’G KAITELS. Mr. Osugi and the others sang and invited various actors to participate. Omori Nao’s band and Otomo Yoshihide’s band also appeared. At the time I was obsessed with Crazy Ken Band, so I called their office and asked them to make me karaoke tracks because I wanted to sing their songs.
Fukamachi That was before karaoke versions had even been released, was it not?
Mitsuishi Exactly. I went out of my way to call, brought the tracks, and said, “These are what I want to sing.” Everyone teased me—“What on earth is that?”—but they let me sing about three songs. I remember going onstage with Tanaka Tetsushi and others as my backing vocalists.
Fukamachi I heard through Matsuo Kiyoshi that you are quite a singer...
Mitsuishi No, no, I could not sing. We just did it while laughing together the whole time.
Matsuo About two years ago, film producer Kai Maki—who is from Kitakyushu and is also known as a close collaborator of director Aoyama Shinji—introduced us. I think he is somewhere in the audience today. That is when we began meeting. You originally met me because you wanted to debut as a singer, did you not? (Laughter)
Fukamachi Really? That was how it began?
Matsushige See, whenever things become inconvenient, he tries to make eye contact with me. You cannot look Mr. Matsuo in the eye right now, can you? (The audience roars with laughter)
Matsuo We did talk recently about a karaoke session that was really an audition.
Fukamachi Seriously?
Matsushige What are you aiming for? Which direction are you even facing? I honestly have no idea. (The audience roars with laughter)
Matsuo And again this time, we discussed whether we might record in Fukuoka. During the many nights we have made it through together, it has come up several times. (Laughter)
Mitsuishi You make it sound as if I said it, but I did not say a single word or make anyone say it. It was merely something to talk about over drinks; we got excited, and that was all.
Matsushige Aoyama Shinji, whom we mentioned earlier, also passed away last year. Mr. Mitsuishi and I first appeared together in his film Eureka.
Mitsuishi That is right.
Matsushige We filmed around Amagi in Fukuoka. Mr. Aoyama, who was from Moji, truly loved music. He made the film using Jim O’Rourke’s song “Eureka.” I admire creators who consciously fuse music and film. Conversely, even in my own profession, I somehow find it hard to become close to people whose antennas are not tuned to music.
Fukamachi I think I understand.
Matsushige His antennas are almost too sensitive. As for your singing debut, I will go back to Tokyo and announce it everywhere. (Laughter)
Fukamachi I genuinely want to hear it. Everyone, would you not like to hear Mr. Mitsuishi sing something soulful? (Audience applause)
Mitsuishi This is absurd. (Laughter)
Matsushige Then give us a line from a Deep Sea Diving Club song—your favorite phrase. (The audience roars with laughter)
Mitsuishi Stop it. I said stop. Please stop.
Fukamachi Even if they never performed music themselves, people from Fukuoka have invariably passed through music, and not superficially—they dig very deeply. Mr. Mitsuishi, you must dig extensively, including into older music.
Mitsuishi Well, yes. At night I enjoy watching videos while having a drink, especially old film footage.
Fukamachi Mr. Matsushige, on the other hand, follows current music.
Matsushige I listen whenever I have a free moment. Spotify is my friend—the friend who keeps teaching me new music. Even on today’s flight here, I downloaded its recommendations and kept listening: “Oh, this is good.” Then I checked more backstage. I simply love new music. I thought kiki vivi lily, who will appear later, was wonderful and invited her onto my radio show; it turned out she attended the same high school as me. Last week two members of yonawo visited. They are also from Fukuoka. Connecting with young Fukuoka musicians is a great pleasure.
Fukamachi So checking music takes priority even over plays and films.
Matsuo “Fukuoka equals music” has been true for a long time. Why is that? Just as people think “Osaka equals comedy,” there is even an image of “Fukuoka equals music.”
Fukamachi It has continued without interruption. Perhaps it comes from the city’s excitable, enthusiastic character. People fundamentally want to do something. Dontaku is the perfect example: everyone would rather participate than watch. An unusually large number of people in Fukuoka may enter music with an attitude like, “I am going to conquer the world through music.”
Matsushige They often slip Fukuoka place names into lyrics: Tulip and Ringo Sheena, for example. yonawo has a song called “Tenjin.” When I hear “It is Tenjin,” that makes me happy as someone from here.
Fukamachi I heard they performed “Tenjin” at yesterday’s outdoor concert.
Matsuo The phrase “someone from here” just struck me. I was wondering which standpoint you were taking. (Laughter)
Fukamachi Mr. Matsuo, Fukuoka keeps producing people—not only musicians but many actors like Mr. Matsushige and Mr. Mitsuishi—so it can also be seen as an entertainment city. Traditionally, success meant moving to Tokyo. Actors have difficulty finding enough work while staying in Fukuoka, and a music producer like you has generally had to work in central Tokyo to earn a living. Yet the United States has music cities beyond Los Angeles and New York—Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Memphis. Even Britain, another island nation, has thriving music cities besides London, such as Manchester and Liverpool. When considering Fukuoka’s future, could there be a way to succeed without leaving?
Matsuo Sonhouse once insisted on keeping its base in Fukuoka. Unfortunately that approach was difficult then. There was no Spotify: music had to be packaged and placed into national distribution, and Tokyo had an overwhelming advantage for effective promotion. But circumstances now allow what Mr. Ayukawa imagined yet could not achieve in the Sonhouse era. Staying in Fukuoka seems central to Deep Sea Diving Club’s identity. Their new song can be heard at the same moment anywhere in Japan or the world. Live performances require touring no matter where a band is based. Under those conditions, there may no longer be any reason it cannot be done from Fukuoka.
Fukamachi It would be good simply to have more options: moving to Tokyo, remaining in Fukuoka, or keeping dual bases in both.
Matsuo Are we not also seeing people come from other cities and make their debut in Fukuoka? Before becoming a producer, I worked as a music writer and journalist in the 1990s. I visited New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Chicago, and many other places. I often heard musicians say they had debuted in their own city and had no intention of moving: “Why should I go anywhere else?” This was before Spotify. America is large, of course, but the same thing happened in Britain. Today, the advantages and disadvantages of leaving Fukuoka are different from what they once were.
Mitsuishi What is the situation with studios and recording in Fukuoka?
Fukamachi The environment is still nowhere near Tokyo’s. However, production has reached the point where a computer alone can create release-quality work.
Matsuo Equipment has also become much less expensive.
Matsushige COVID also accelerated a world where, even without international travel, artists abroad can exchange data and collaborate as featured performers.
Fukamachi Co-writing is exactly that: people can create a song together across distance.
Matsushige It is no longer about selling CDs. That may create other problems for musicians, but listeners benefit from streaming, and the barriers are disappearing. In that sense, the distance between Tokyo and Fukuoka no longer matters. What Fukuoka needs is an environment where creators, musicians, and filmmakers can live comfortably. Prices are relatively low, delicious food is affordable, and there has long been soil in which interesting people nearby encourage you to take your shot. That soil helped sustain Fukuoka’s continuous network of musicians. We should cultivate it in a new form and create an environment where everyone watches over the field for young musicians. yonawo moved to Tokyo and lives together in a shared house, but four people could share a house in Hakata, record at home, and release genuinely excellent music from there. A rapper could stop by and say, “I will add my part here.” All of that can be done in Hakata too.
Fukamachi Hearing that excites me. It feels increasingly possible.
Matsushige I hear about areas in South London crowded with people like that, or neighborhoods outside central Berlin where poor but ambitious people live and keep producing exciting music. Each time, I feel frustrated and think, “In Japan, that place should be Hakata—it should be Fukuoka.”
Fukamachi That would encourage many people. Culture and music can only arise from a particular place. Fukuoka produced Mentai Rock, and there must still be music that can only emerge here. We want to explore those possibilities. Not just anywhere, but because Fukuoka has this background.
Matsuo Imagine a term I coined: a “mid-sized metropolis.” Tokyo is a major metropolis and has many advantages, but competition is so intense that people can disappear within it. At the same time, sustaining musical activity requires a certain degree of urban infrastructure. In an emergency, for instance, it is preferable to be within a thirty-minute drive of an Apple Store. By those measures, Fukuoka is ideal.
Fukamachi And it is extremely close to the airport.
Matsuo Everything exists within a comfortably sized community.
Fukamachi Artists could even fly directly in from abroad and record in Fukuoka with surprising ease.
Matsuo You could invite visitors from abroad into a studio, or make music that feels like “Welcome to my bedroom.” That kind of recording is equally valid.
Fukamachi Certainly—home recording and bedroom music.
Matsuo Yes. More listeners now favor that texture. Tom Misch, whom Mr. Matsushige likes, is not pursuing lavish production in a huge studio, yet his music can enrich people’s feelings. Conditions are becoming a tailwind for those who want to continue making music in Fukuoka.
Fukamachi So even from a music producer’s perspective, this is not a distant possibility.
Matsuo I agree. Living costs in Tokyo are high. People move there to make music, but survival consumes them, and they say, “I could have made demos more efficiently in Fukuoka.” I have heard that for years. The problem has not disappeared; it is becoming more pronounced.
Fukamachi Fukuoka would become fascinating if people began living between two bases. Zaitsu Kazuo already lives that kind of dual life, with bases in Tokyo and Fukuoka, and writes songs here too. When you think about it, songs can be written anywhere.
Matsuo He demonstrated exactly that. Mr. Zaitsu originally wrote songs in Fukuoka and reached the top, so now he can be said to have returned to his starting point. I hear that Tamori also loves his hometown of Fukuoka. Perhaps he hopes to come back one day. I quietly hope so.
Fukamachi If that happens, Fukuoka’s identity as an entertainment and music city may become much more visible.
Matsushige As I said at the start, Fukuoka’s scenery keeps changing. I do not expect it to remain frozen in the past, but I honestly worry that urbanization may erode the soil where young creators can live. Greater convenience and the ability to enjoy the same lifestyle as a major metropolis are wonderful. But I hope Fukuoka can guarantee places for the filmmakers and other creators who once grew especially well here. Then people living between two bases could immerse themselves in the community and make a film with younger creators. I dream about possibilities like that.
Fukamachi Kitakyushu, Mr. Mitsuishi’s hometown, has hosted many film productions. It shows that Fukuoka can offer things Tokyo cannot. As Mr. Matsushige says, if the region provides a comfortable and attractive environment for creators, choosing Fukuoka becomes entirely plausible.
Matsuo For making music, Fukuoka has a beautiful urban shape or form. If the city grows too large, that distinctive form may collapse—or perhaps become difficult to maintain. To put it somewhat calculatingly, Fukuoka must preserve its form while gaining enough competitiveness to stand against other major cities. Can those goals not coexist?
Matsushige Film includes music, and directors like Mr. Aoyama entered through music. It can bring musicians and many other creators together to do exciting things. For film, however, Kitakyushu currently offers the much better environment. Its film commission works very hard, and the city carefully protects old streets. They can say, “For a story set in that decade, shoot in this neighborhood.” The whole city values those resources, so filmmakers often go to Kitakyushu. That makes me a little sad because Fukuoka also had many good locations—the sea, mountains, and old streets. I hope development can preserve them.
Fukamachi If Kitakyushu is a film city and Fukuoka a music city, collaboration could produce further synergy. I would like the two of you to create a film festival in Fukuoka—perhaps a music-film festival. Would everyone like that? (Audience applause) We will work to prepare the setting.
Mitsuishi It would be fascinating if we could make something like that happen.
Matsushige Now that we have said it in a place like this, we should do something interesting. The person who says it first wins.
Fukamachi We have eyewitnesses—witnesses to the promise.
Matsuo Are there any senior Fukuoka City officials in the audience? (Laughter)
Fukamachi There were. I saw them earlier.
Matsushige They are avoiding eye contact now. (The audience roars with laughter)
Fukamachi No, the idea must have reached them.
Mitsuishi Am I at the center of it? (The audience roars with laughter)
Matsushige It is decided: a film centered on Mr. Mitsuishi.
Fukamachi Let us do it.
Mitsuishi Come to think of it, a film festival is taking place now, is it not?
Fukamachi Yes, but not that one. Let us create something specifically for Mr. Mitsuishi!
Mitsuishi Ah, yes. My apologies. (The audience roars with laughter)
Fukamachi That has become something we truly want to realize. There is still much to discuss. All three of you are people of wide-ranging interests. Mr. Matsushige astonished me by following advanced music such as DOMi & JD BECK and Jacob Collier before many listeners discovered it. There are people like that in Fukuoka too. Music now needs something like sustainability. In the past, people went to Tokyo seeking success, then gave up music and came home if it did not sell. Today more people want to keep making music throughout their lives, perhaps while holding another job. Success need not determine whether someone is allowed to continue. Mr. Matsushige, your book Chase Your Cow describes the difficulties before you could support yourself as an actor. Is not “continuing” extremely important?
Matsushige Returning to Mr. Ayukawa: after Sonhouse in Fukuoka, he formed Sheena & The Rokkets and signed with Alfa Records during the peak of YMO and technopop. The second album contained a lot of technopop, and those of us in Hakata complained, “What? They have turned into technopop.” At the same time, that music entered our own ears, and we found it fascinating. I once asked Mr. Ayukawa what it felt like. He said, “It was fun! Things I knew nothing about kept coming in. I would play a rock guitar line like this, and it would come back as completely different electronic beeps. It was exciting!” That made me understand. People from Hakata possess a sustainable capacity to absorb many things. Even Mr. Ayukawa, who declared “Rock and roll!”, absorbed techno, enjoyed it, and made it his own. The reason we are still working past sixty is that we stay interested, keep watching and listening, and continue to be stimulated. I want to live so people can say that I kept rocking until my final day.
Fukamachi That truly is “keep a-rockin’.” It is not merely stubbornly insisting on oneself; it is going to many different places without losing one’s core. Mr. Ayukawa proved that.
Matsushige To me, that is precisely what rock means.
Fukamachi Did that idea support you through difficult periods too?
Matsushige I constantly remind myself never to reject something without trying it. Even at sixty, I should not say, “That is not for me.” In that sense, Mr. Mitsuishi’s singing debut is entirely possible. If he succeeds, perhaps I will follow behind him. (The audience roars with laughter)
Fukamachi What do you think, Mr. Mitsuishi? A new challenge is perfectly valid.
Mitsuishi Well, let us set that particular idea aside. I am often inspired by young musicians and young actors, and that is enormously enjoyable. As Mr. Matsushige said, I try not to say, “I cannot do this.”
Fukamachi Many possibilities still lie ahead.
Matsushige Then please prepare your throat and sing us one song now. (The audience roars with laughter)
Fukamachi We have all reached a certain age, but there may still be many things we can do. We also have a role in passing the baton to younger people, just as Mr. Ayukawa showed us his back and led by example. Mr. Matsuo, perhaps you could do something in Fukuoka as a producer. The city has many enthusiastic people eager to appear onstage, but not enough people who can support them, see the wider picture, and produce their work. If someone like you paid attention to that side, it could revitalize the scene.
Matsuo Even more than musicians, producers are seen as a profession that can only exist in Tokyo. Listening to both of you, I thought about accepting change while preserving what matters—or accepting certain changes precisely in order not to change, or continuously changing in small ways to remain oneself. This truth applies equally to music, film, and theater. One advantage of being in Tokyo is the ability to observe rigorously why some predecessors could not build smooth careers. Many succeeded, of course, but many did not. Musicians working in Fukuoka may feel anxious because neither role models nor cautionary examples are visible nearby. This is not unique to Fukuoka. When young, people can mistake a small error for a failure that will ruin their entire lives. But music and theater move forward through repeated small mistakes. They need people around them who understand that generously. An atmosphere that lets people recover instead of despairing is essential for artistic incubation. Mayor Takashima and the city as a whole should watch over that environment.
Fukamachi Tolerance is indeed a Fukuoka trait. During Dontaku and Yamakasa, the city transforms instantly. Elsewhere people might complain, “This is too noisy,” but Fukuoka has a temperament that accepts it as normal.
Matsuo I have an image of Fukuoka as kind even to people who fail. Is that actually true? Since I moved away, perhaps homesickness and nostalgia make it look that way. Maybe Fukuoka is surprisingly cold if you fail. (Laughter)
Fukamachi It may be hard to generalize, but the city seems to look warmly on people who step forward. For example, five consecutive weeks of music festivals fill the entire month of September. Every weekend, festivals take place in the city, on beaches, and at the port—public spaces where noise complaints would normally become a major issue.
Matsuo A Tokyo music-industry person who heard about Fukuoka’s September program said, “The entire city of Fukuoka is crazy.” That was very much a compliment. (Laughter)
Fukamachi We simply take it for granted.
Matsuo People here may not realize how unusual it is for a city of this population to commit as a whole for so long. Two years ago, you introduced me to Mayor Takashima for a conversation, and Amsterdam and New Orleans came up. Fukuoka has a mayor who respects such music cities and thinks seriously about business possibilities such as music tourism as well as music itself. The entire city really is crazy. (Laughter)
Fukamachi One festival in September’s Music Month is Nakasu Jazz. Turning an intersection on Nakasu’s main street into a stage is almost unimaginable. Emergency vehicles need access, and intersections are normally the last place events are allowed. Yet at 6 p.m. the road becomes pedestrian-only, a stage is built in just one hour, and music blasts out directly across from the Nakasu police box.
Matsuo That is fantastic.
Fukamachi Hakata may be the only city in Japan where that is possible. The adults around it properly recognize and permit it. It is that kind of city.
Matsuo If it is all you have seen since birth, you may assume every city is like that. Only after leaving do you understand its value. Fukuoka was especially tolerant toward music.
Fukamachi A child who encounters loud music may have their entire life changed.
Matsuo Conversely, without such encounters, change may be difficult.
Fukamachi Kitakyushu is similar. It tolerates filming large explosions in the middle of the city.
Mitsuishi Film crews all say they can do things in downtown Kitakyushu that would be impossible in Tokyo. I heard that only Kitakyushu and one other place in all Japan permit a car to be sunk in the sea.
Matsushige That used to be an everyday occurrence. (Laughter)
Matsuo Sinking a car in the sea is simply terrifying unless it is for a film. (Laughter)
Fukamachi Tolerance seems essential when culture is born. The strange person is often the interesting one, and unusual people become artists.
Matsuo An environment need not love something misshapen, but if it accepts the person in that shape, they may create something fascinating. Music history offers many examples of outsiders and unorthodox music eventually becoming the standard. Ringo Sheena is one. Young women in rock after her can almost be divided into those who sound like her and those who do not. At first she too was an unusually shaped stone. Today its great value is recognized, and it is called a gem. She is one of the most remarkable cases in the Japanese music industry of the past twenty-five years.
Fukamachi This is not only about Fukuoka, of course. As the world changes, Fukuoka can become even more interesting if it welcomes people of every background and preserves diversity and tolerance. Tenjin Big Bang and Hakata Connected may reshape and sophisticate the city’s surface, but we want to preserve the soul beneath it.
Matsuo During our meeting, Mr. Matsushige asked, “What is Hakata Connected?” Does everyone here know it? How many are hearing the term for the first time today?
Fukamachi Please applaud if you had not heard of Hakata Connected. (Scattered applause)
Matsuo So it has not penetrated public awareness that deeply.
Fukamachi People may know Tenjin Big Bang, but Fukuoka will change dramatically. As Mr. Matsuo said, I hope the things we want to remain unchanged can coexist securely with that change.
Matsushige I have a request. Geographically, traveling from Fukuoka to Korea is not much different from traveling to Tokyo. The ferry to Busan is not operating yet, is it?
Fukamachi I think it will gradually resume.
Matsushige Korean music is extremely exciting now. I do not mean only the Korean Wave stars visible in the mainstream; many deeper artists are creating excellent music. Since Fukuoka is geographically close, we could collaborate with people from Korea and elsewhere in Asia. Fukuoka is exceptionally well located.
Matsuo Fukuoka can make use of that geographical advantage.
Matsushige Exactly. Use the location for music events. The Busan International Film Festival is a world-class festival held just nearby—closer than the Tokyo International Film Festival. In the post-COVID era, it would be more interesting to create and gather people while thinking of Fukuoka not merely as a Japanese city relative to Tokyo, but as a city within Asia, drawing those surrounding movements into it.
Fukamachi That was a perfect lead-in.
Mitsuishi He says some very good things, does he not? (Laughter)
Matsushige Mr. Mitsuishi made me say it.
Fukamachi Something like that has already happened as part of this FUKUOKA MUSIC SUMMIT. Deep Sea Diving Club co-wrote with KIKI, a popular Thai indie-pop band, yesterday and the day before. The sessions became so lively that they made two songs instead of the planned one. I think a short video digest was shown earlier. Fukuoka is a gateway to Asia, with the advantage of geographical closeness, so there are clearly opportunities to continue working together in this way.
Matsuo Those opportunities absolutely should exist.
Fukamachi We want to explore them. The old route aimed from Fukuoka toward Tokyo; now people can move from Fukuoka to Seoul or Taiwan.
Matsushige Fukuoka should become a hub—a hub for music and culture where people gather before moving elsewhere, and where anyone arriving can always find someone interesting. Fukuoka’s location can be used very effectively that way.
Fukamachi From your perspective in Tokyo, you also believe Fukuoka should take that role.
Matsushige I sense that people are desperate to move again, even just traveling here today from Haneda. That feeling extends across Asia. Japan is now inexpensive—Fukuoka is much cheaper than Korea or China. If many people come and the city builds a mechanism that draws in interesting visitors, it can become more than a tourist destination. Imagine people visiting a live venue and saying, “Fukuoka is exciting—there are so many great bands here.” That would be ideal.
Fukamachi I hope it becomes that. Our conversation could continue forever, but we need to begin wrapping up. Since these three busy guests have gathered today, I would like to ask what each of you is currently doing. Let us begin with Mr. Matsuo. You still have very strong connections to Fukuoka and appear on RKB Radio’s Ryusuke Tabata Grow Up. Which day is that?
Matsuo Monday—tomorrow morning. Every Monday I appear live by Zoom from my workplace in Tokyo. That is one of the things made possible since COVID.
Fukamachi That has certainly become convenient.
Matsuo After doing it for a year, I have recalled many things from when I lived in Fukuoka. Honestly, I had forgotten a great deal, so it has been a year of recovering knowledge and intuition. Also on Mondays, I host Matsuo Kiyoshi’s Mellow Night on NHK-FM.
Fukamachi The slightly disreputable kind of music Mr. Mitsuishi enjoys. (Laughter) It plays sexy, mellow music.
Matsuo Disreputable music. (Laughter) The program has run for thirteen or fourteen years, but I have never done a live broadcast. We always recorded at NHK, and during COVID I recorded in my home studio. Audio recorded at home was broadcast nationwide. It made me realize that radio can be made anywhere.
Fukamachi And you continue producing music. I find your recent work fascinating. You were strongly associated with R&B, but lately you have crossed into enka, writing lyrics for Yoshimi Tendo. The way you cross boundaries feels deliberate.
Matsuo When I was young, I traveled frequently between Japan, America, and Britain to report the latest R&B information, so I worked hard to communicate the cutting edge without delay. That continued when I began producing songs. People used to speak of “Japanese-made R&B,” but I was uncomfortable when “Japanese-made” implied a generic imitation. What can only be made in this country? It resembles asking what can only be made in Fukuoka. As I explored R&B possible precisely because I live in Japan and gained more perspectives, I became interested in enka that I had once ignored. Perhaps the relationship between folk song and enka resembles that between gospel and R&B. In the past, I probably would not have been asked to work with Yoshimi Tendo, and might have hesitated even if I were. Now I think, “Ms. Tendo is Japan’s Gladys Knight,” and believe we can make something exciting. Perhaps this is my way of accepting change. Fine-grained categories have also become less meaningful to me. Recently I began work on a major musical scheduled to open this summer.
Fukamachi It sounds as if many new things will continue to emerge.
Matsuo I always want to remain new.
Fukamachi Next is Mr. Mitsuishi, with very timely news that intersects many of today’s topics. Escape from the Dream, in which he stars, opens on June 9. I hear it was filmed entirely in Kitakyushu, and Mr. Matsushige also appears. We have a photograph here—what scene is this?
Matsuo A family gathering? (The audience roars with laughter)
Mitsuishi Something like that. Mr. Matsushige plays an old classmate, and Rei Okamoto, an actress from Fukuoka, is in the back.
Matsushige The director loves Mr. Mitsuishi, so he wrote the screenplay from Mr. Mitsuishi’s stories and turned it into a film.
Fukamachi A project built around Mr. Mitsuishi.
Matsushige Exactly. Many things begin with him. Today we announced both the music event and his singing debut.
Fukamachi What a key person!
Matsushige And this film will be completed this year.
Fukamachi Mr. Matsushige appears in it too.
Matsushige His father appears as well.
Fukamachi His father?
Matsushige Mr. Mitsuishi’s actual father appears.
Mitsuishi The entire family stayed in Yahata. All the crew also stayed at a hotel there while filming.
Matsushige His father and I exchange New Year’s cards every year. We also corresponded about asking people to support the film.
Fukamachi You really are like relatives. This is one to watch. I believe audiences in Fukuoka can see it from June 9. And Matsushige Yutaka, as I mentioned at the start, is appearing in NHK’s historical drama.
Matsushige It starts in thirty minutes, so everyone should go home now. (The audience roars with laughter)
Fukamachi Oh, right—but please do not make everyone leave. (Laughter)
Matsushige Or watch the rebroadcast next Saturday. The program is What Will You Do, Ieyasu?
Fukamachi It has prompted much discussion. You cannot spoil what happens, of course.
Matsushige Who knows what will happen? Fukuoka tends to favor Hideyoshi. This is a place that calls kaiten-yaki cakes “taikō-yaki,” which other regions call imagawa-yaki. Taikō Hideyoshi is fine, but this year I hope everyone will favor Ieyasu.
Fukamachi You even narrate the segment after each episode. And your new book Chase Your Cow is co-written with Masuno Shunmyo.
Matsushige Fukuoka was home to the famous Edo-period Zen monk Sengai Gibon, at Shōfukuji Temple, I believe. Zen teachings are rock and roll. One of Sengai’s works simply contains a circle, triangle, and square: “○△□.” Zen philosophy teaches a rock-and-roll attitude that anything is possible. During a low period, Apple’s Steve Jobs relied on a Zen monk as an adviser and borrowed much wisdom. Apple products still have no ornamentation and seem to emerge from nothing. That way of thinking—nothing, yet everything contained within it—feels deeply rock to me. I became interested in Zen in my forties. In this book, landscape designer and Zen priest Masuno Shunmyo and I talk through the Ten Ox-Herding Pictures as a kind of puzzle.
Fukamachi That sounds fascinating. It may offer important realizations to people struggling with life. All three of you are extraordinarily active, but we are finally nearing the end of our time. I would like each guest to share a final reflection. Mr. Matsushige, may we begin with you?
Matsushige NHK starts in thirty minutes. Is everyone all right? Please call a taxi and hurry home. (The audience roars with laughter)
Matsushige There will also be live music today, so I hope you enjoy it. Although I work in acting, a field entirely different from music, I am very happy to be invited to a Fukuoka music event. Talking with Mr. Mitsuishi and Mr. Matsuo reminds me that our roots lie in growing up in Fukuoka, and that growing up here is precisely why we can now spread our wings freely. That feels like a medal to me. Even as the city changes, people raised here will continue going to Tokyo and out into the world. I hope Fukuoka keeps watching over them. Young people will naturally strive to follow such examples, and we can stimulate one another. Let us all keep rocking. Those are my closing words. Thank you very much.
Fukamachi A true “keep a-rockin’” message. Next, Mitsuishi Ken, please.
Mitsuishi I am here with my old friend Mr. Matsushige; Mr. Matsuo, whom I came to know over the past year or two; and Mr. Fukamachi, whom I actually met thirty years ago, when he took me to a food stall. Seeing all those connections join together into today’s occasion has made me tremendously happy. As Mr. Matsuo said, these are bonds that Fukuoka created. I would gladly take part in future projects—but I am not releasing a song. (Laughter)
Fukamachi That was exactly what I was going to request. Mitsuishi Ken, everyone. Finally, a summary from Matsuo Kiyoshi.
Matsuo It is presumptuous to offer a summary. Two or three years ago, I could not have imagined the four of us facing this audience together. In Tokyo bars, people from Fukuoka often meet by chance and get excited: “Oh, you are from Fukuoka too!” I sometimes wonder how that extravagant hometown pride looks to everyone else. (Laughter) But being here today made me keenly feel what becomes possible when people share backgrounds and interests. If you grew up in Fukuoka and share something such as music or film, even a first meeting feels close. Today was my first time meeting Mr. Matsushige, but I had made music for a Aoyama Shinji film, and of course I knew his work. Today left me feeling truly warm. What I most want to say is that this city needs neither me nor these two distinguished actors most—it needs people like Mr. Fukamachi. If Fukuoka had three or four more of him, its music-city plan could draw a beautiful picture. I know, of course, that a person like him cannot be created overnight. (Laughter) I spoke today with the sincere hope that Fukuoka will enrich both music and everything around it.
Fukamachi Thank you. Those words are more than I deserve, but many younger people are growing too, so it is not only me. Fukuoka will keep working. My final request to the three guests is that, beginning with today, you continue watching over this city as ambassadors for Music City Fukuoka. Everyone would like to ask that of them, would you not? (Thunderous applause) I have decided it here without permission: our Music City Fukuoka ambassadors are Matsuo Kiyoshi, Mitsuishi Ken, and Matsushige Yutaka. Thank you for joining us today.
OTOJIRO presents FUKUOKA MUSIC SUMMIT
Sunday, March 19, 2023, at Fukuoka International Congress Center
TALK SESSION “Memories of the City and Music”
Guests: Matsuo Kiyoshi (music producer), Mitsuishi Ken (actor), Matsushige Yutaka (actor)
Moderator: Fukamachi Kenjiro (music producer / Director, Fukuoka Music City Council)
Stage decoration: Krank
Photography: Katsumura Photography Office (Katsumura Yuki, Sakumoto Naneko)
